All episodes·Episode 27🇿🇦 South AfricaLeadership

From Paramedic to Leader — Charlotte Pillay’s Inspiring Journey

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Episode 27 of ParaPodcast.

From Paramedic to Leader — Charlotte Pillay’s Inspiring Journey — a conversation with Charlotte Pillay from South Africa. Part of our Leadership series, exploring the people, ideas, and evidence shaping global EMS.

The guest

Charlotte Pillay

🇿🇦 South Africa

Charlotte Pillay is a South African paramedic whose career has climbed from frontline road work into EMS leadership. Her ParaPodcast conversation traces that journey — the operational years, the transition into management, and what it takes for practitioners to step into leadership without losing touch with the road.

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From YouTube’s automatic captions, so names and medical terms may be wrong. Tap a time to play from that moment.

Hi everyone. Uh, welcome back to the PAR podcast where we bring you real stories and insights from the world of emergency medical services. I'm your host Tulani Thomas Sibanda and today we have a very special guest joining us. But before we introduce our guest, I'm always with the usual suspects, Mr. Manusin Tera and um IAS Thomas. And today we are honored to be speaking to Miss Charlotte P, a paramedic whose journey has taken her from frontline operations to leadership, clinical program development, even academia. And we're excited to hear more about that. So stick around. But before we dive into Charlotte's uh incredible journey, um I want to start on something
like Charlotte and um since it's women's month, how has the month been for you personally? Um for me personally, it's been a great month. I've just come out of a fire and EMS and leadership conference with the MEC of healthcare where we got to discuss the trajectory of women and their role in the EMS and in the fire services at large. So, it's been a great month for me. Um, it's been insightful.
I was privileged to be amongst some powerful women in the industry, some industry trailblazers that were there. And um I'm so grateful to be a part of this profession and to be part of such a great profession where um it was a lot of women who walked this road before me in the EMS so that I could have a place and I could have a seat at the table today.
Sounds interesting. That's that's that's nice. And and Charlotte since you came from that conference or you can even reflect on your life is that if the if you can think about that one woman whether in your personal life in your career or even from that conference that you attended or in history who really inspires you who would that be and why
I would say um one woman that really stood out for me from the conference is um Miss Bridget Zungu. um she's the director of EMS for KZN department of health and um the reason why um she stands out to me because um she's someone who's been in the industry when it was predominantly male-dominated and I'm talking about years back when I started in the EMS um in 2008 um there were only 100,600 paramedics that were registered with the HBCSA at that time. There were no females that I could look up to. There was no one that could inspire me. And her life and the things that she went
through and the road that she walked up down inspired me. Um, you know, they say, um, she ran so people like me could walk in the MS.
Thanks for sharing that. Um, I am guilty. And there was one guest that we had on the PAR podcast and um we I made a comment or a question to say why don't we have female directors in emergency medical services and on that day the episode is still coming I hope removes that part deletes it I was that there is miss Richard Zungu but it's it's it's good to hear that she She's inspiration. So, she's a common name. Okay.
Yes. I guess she's doing good for herself and also inspiring people like you and many more. But, um, nonetheless, thank you for sharing uh that, Charlotte. Uh, it's always powerful to hear who inspires the people
who inspire others. And I'm sure you also people when they watch this, they're going to say, "Ah, I'm inspired by Charlotte." Um, now I'd love to take you to uh to the back where it all began. your journey and um can you tell us if somebody is wondering who's Charlotte P where's Charlotte from where's your upbringing and tell us who's Charlott
um so I'm from Kaden um so um so you all know that I'm Indian and I'm from Kaden and um in my Indian culture um going into the profession of being a paramedic and being an advanced life support paramedic was unheard of. So when you're an Indian, you either have to become a doctor, lawyer, accountant. And much to my parents' dismay, this is the career that I wanted to get into and this is what I wanted to become. So this is what who I am. This is the road that I and the journey that I've chosen. Uh when I was 16 years old, I watched the back in
Durban at that time, we didn't have much uh hymn services. We had the discovery helicopter back then. So when I was 16 years old, I watched the discovery helicopter land on the highway and extricate the paramedics from there extricated a patient out of an MBA and they flew the patient from there and um they stopped traffic. It was like the coolest thing that I've ever watched and I knew from like that day this is what I wanted to do and um that's what I did.
Which which uh sorry which township are you from in in Deb? Where are you from? Uh Charlotte which I'm from Phoenix.
Oh Phoenix. Yeah. All right then. I just want to I just want to offer them here a little bit. I'm from Can you speak Zulu because most Indians like a little medical zulu?
Yeah. Oh yes. Musi knows um Kerin well cuz you worked in Kadan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm actually from Kaz and close to Richard Bay in the Royal area somewhere there. Yeah.
You know, Charlotte, I'm just wondering, you know, when you had to break this news to your parents like, "Hey, uh guys, I'm actually going to study this other program I saw people doing in the street." Like, how did they take it? Like was this like something like you are the black sheep of the family now? Why are you going off roads? What? What are you going
black sheep? Why must be a white sheep? I don't say it's called a black sheep. I like to think that I'm generally the rebel of my family. Um yeah and uh they are just subjected to my decisions that I make. But um I think um it came as a shock to them because of my personality. Um if you've ever met me, I'm a very introverted person. Um I'm not loud. I don't fit the typical um paramedic demeanor, the paramedic personality type. So I'm a very introverted person.
Um so I think the Kim is a bit of a shock to them that this is what I wanted to do.
I I I know I I know that. Um I I always said to to to you know to people that I think representation is like a very important thing you know cuz I feel like if people can see you there then they can see themselves there. Do has anyone ever sort of like walked up to you and said you are my hero or like you know I wish to be like you just want to grow up. Have you ever had instances like that?
I've had that quite a few times. Um there's quite a few people that I mentor. um especially now um there's a lot of um female ECPs that are on quite a few programs up in UJ and um in Keren as well and quite a few of them have come up to me and said you know what I admire your career um and you know I see a lot of myself in you and there's a lot of people that I mentor who have gone through the same things I went through in the EMS that I get to coach and I get to help them through their journey as
well. That's great. That's great. Um, keep keep motivating people. Keep uh shining. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Um, shall now tell us your time at the university. How was your experience like? Cuz our my experience was tough. Um, we all shared our different experiences when we were university. Someone got mugged. They took his bread.
We know who that someone is. I don't know why we got and they took my bread. Musi used to eat fat cakes and then you would sleep in class. But how was your experience coming from high school to tertiary education? Were you prepared for tertiary education?
No. I don't think anyone is ever prepared from jumping from school and going into the EMS and going straight into university. um studying at university and studying emergency medicine is so different from all of the other courses. It's so different from being a chiropractor to a radiologist or getting into dentistry. Um firstly, you're an EMC student. You're not like the other students. You wear this uniform to campus every day while everyone else gets to wear these cool clothes. You know, you're jumping off buildings with these ropes. And you know I had a very different um university experience. Um I wasn't playing pool in the cafeteria every day and uh during my
holidays um we used to go work shifts in hospital you know you don't even have much of a holiday um or anything like that. Um so my university experience was very difficult. Um also I didn't have anyone in university that I could go to or say you know what um this is the type of experience that I'm having and it's so difficult and um like it's such a new experience um and I'm not coping or I'm not dealing with this well um like you know you had to do everything in silence because at back then um for me to be on those course was a privilege because um
you know they tell you there's more than 3,000 people that applied to um emergency medical care and it's only 24 of you get that get on the call. So you already um have this seat there and you know there's no one that you can run to for help and stuff. So my experience was very different. Um I think I struggled a lot. I struggled a lot with rescue for me. I think the physical aspect was um like really tough on me.
And the spreaders were heavy. Yeah. I was just going to ask like how how did you pull through? Like I I remember we had like study groups like we had cuz our group was quite small. I mean we are sort of 20 but we had sort of like mini groups within the group. And I remember after class we need to study together just to try and comprehend sort of what was taught and try and use everyone's strongest link to try and you know sort of like blend up and see how we can learn. Did you did you have anything similar? Did you have like a group of
friends that you could just like you know mingle with and learn with? And that was the other thing. I also didn't have many friends at university on the course as well. But um one of the good things is that um I excelled academically with the academic aspect of um the course. The only thing that I think I fell behind or I struggled with was the physical aspect and the rescue of the course. Could you swim at the time by the way or did you have to learn how to swim then?
So um I think they introduced that after I completed my study. So I was lucky but I can swim. I can swim.
All right. No thanks for sharing that. I think all of us have had we need to appreciate that we come from different backgrounds and we've had our different challenges in the university but um throughout all uh we've made it it's interesting what you've said and I can sort of reflect on my past experiences where I think we were 30 something 31 32 when we were selected to the program obviously the number of people that applied was huge
but if I had to think about the amount of people that had graded weighted from that 37 I can say 12
I must verify it but it's not more than 15 and which makes it shows that the course is difficult but also it needs that dedication needs perseverance and I'm sure all of us sitting here I can only speak for myself we've we've all persevered to make sure that we are where we are and we are succeeding but um Charlotte now you finished your degree at Deon University of Technology and then what happened next?
Um so I worked at Ned Care um at which station? Um so at first I was at Kingsway and I think it was around the time that you were at Kingsway cuz
Okay. I think we did a bit of a hand over there to each other. We were on opposite shifts.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look at him. He's smiling. You remember that? Yeah, I remember. I remember. I remember a bit. I do remember Amy, too.
Please. Also, when I qualified, I was quite young and I didn't have my PDP back then. So, um I had one of the base managers that was kind enough to get a BLS to um
drive me around. And, you know, he would also hold an umbrella for me if it got too hot on scene. I'm joking on that. I wish wouldn't be nice though, would it?
Sorry. It would be nice. I'm saying it would be nice, would it not? Yeah. So, uh I think I got driven around for a while.
After Kingsway. So, after Kingsway, I went to a small town just out of Debon called Richard's Bay. So, I spent most of my
early career in Richard's Bay. Yeah. Yeah. That's my hometown. And and um in Richard's Bay there was no ALS. I think both then um the town next to Richard's Bay that was called Impangi. There was no ALS there as well. So I was the only advanced sport paramedic that was there in the town.
How was that though? I mean you being the only paramedic in the area. Did they call you like even on your off day? can you just assist us with this or I have this I don't know how how was it?
So the hospitals in the town itself was um similar to um let's say like a level two trauma facility. So they had some specialists but they didn't have neurosurgery. They didn't have a cat lab. Um they didn't have all of those specialist facilities. So if there was a patient that was involved in multi-system trauma, um we' I' I'd be the one putting the patient on event and taking them to Durban Central um to have them transported. So I sat with a lot of unstable patients for 2 hours. There was no HM service even back then to fly patients from Richard's Bay or Impi to Durban. Um, I did get to go out to a lot
of cool cases. Um, not far out of Richard's Bay, there's another town called Suana where people usually go to dive. So, I had quite a lot of diving emergencies as well. So, uh, I got really good exposure. Um, I did a lot of neonatal transfers cuz they didn't have any specialist obstetric facilities there in rigid space. So, transport a lot of unstable babies to Durban Central itself that I sat with. So um with a lot of difficult clinical cases
sounds like good experience. I was just going to ask as well um and we speak on the channel a lot about mentorship and uh you know just sort of being prepared for the road. Um did you have any and do you think it could have been better and um yeah just around that area of your how you experienced it?
I I think it could have been better and I think that's one of our pain points that we need to do better with the new graduates that come out of university. There's no handbook. Um you know, you get told the 10 codes. I don't even know what 10 codes were. Um you know, how to speak on a radio and things like that and you know, how to respond to cases.
Um all of these things are foreign to you when you enter the work environment itself and things that you're not exposed to. Also difficult clinical cases that you sit with alone. Um uh for me there weren't other paramedics at that time to guide me. So the guidance that I received was from other doctors or from other senior nurses that were with the patients or that I was taking a handover from that would guide me.
Look uh your your your your journey is quite interesting and um I think maybe that shaped you to the person that you are. While you were working in at the private under service that you worked for. Um what were some of the biggest challenges that you faced working as a female as an operational paramedic in that as an operational paramedic at that time?
I think at that time um one of the things that was difficult for me is that I was so young. I was 23 years old, 22, 23 and um it's very difficult because you're supposed to be this senior person and then um you go and work with all of these people who are like in their 30s and their 40s and the EMS there and now you have to go out there and command respect out of these people and you know it's it's so difficult and um um I think that was difficult for me um also when I worked lived in Richton's Bay. I was subjected to a lot of racism. Um
remember I said I was the only advanced life support paramedic in this town but I faced a lot of racism where um at times I would go out to cases and they wouldn't want me to treat their patients. They would rather be treated by um a fireman or a junior par or a junior um ranked paramedic like a BLS or something like that. they wouldn't allow me to treat them and it was so heartbreaking. Um and I think those are the things that helped me develop a lot of resilience in my career. I had to learn that from a very um young age starting out
and what what did you do in that case if someone doesn't want to be treated by you? Do you just like okay sign the indemnity for all life?
Yeah. So sometimes they wouldn't even come out of their houses there um for me to treat them. they would rather be treated by other people. So I'm like, okay, you signed the
who signed the waiver. And Charlotte, look, this is very sad that we still have people that uh well at that time behave like that that they wouldn't want to be. Do you think that they looked at you first of all that you're maybe you're an Indian, you're a female and also there is that culture aspect to say I wouldn't want to be treated by a female. What does she know?
Do you think those were the aspect that played a role in terms of them saying no I don't want to be treated by you?
I think it was definitely um the color being a person of color was the main issue. I don't think it came as um being female as such. I think it's being a person of color and they didn't want to be treated by a person of color. I guess that was a richest bay. Um the other side because you have the other side which has a lot of Indian communities. You have fled and flies and stuff like that
that has multiple communities. It's a it's a it's a beautiful place but it's just has um different people and and and and I wonder I wonder what what do you think we should do in these communities where I'm not sure if it still happens. I mean on the podcast we had uh people that were working in Bloom and they spoke about the racism in Bloom and how they would just straight up tell you that hey listen not you the other one is but not you. Uh what obviously this comes down as education first of all to say that listen these are the people that are on the ambulance they're
going to be coming out to your house please first of all respect them they are professionals irrespective you their color or their race or whatever the case might be. What do what do you think we need to do in these communities in order to raise awareness and you know just as well so that they understand how this affects these professionals that are coming out to do their job and how they are being subjected to racism and all these kinds of u I don't know discriminatory activities
I'll tell you what I think oh you can start the sh you can start sh I would you know I was doing the math and um it's like almost 17 years ago go that I was working on the road and these were the things that was happening and I think it's evolved a lot since then. People are more aware of the capabilities of paramedics and what they can do and you know they can come out and give you pain relief and make you feel better and ease your breathing and things like that and check your heart and stuff and your heart rhythm. I think that whole um perception of paramedics
has changed since then. Yeah, what I was going to say was um I was in Bloom Fontaine. I think it was Booie that spoke about Bloom Fontaine and her experience. So I was in Plantain in 22 in 21 22 just after co um I worked there for for for 5 months and um I was surprised when I saw the pamphlet for the organization I they had my pictures on cuz I used to work there too.
Legend. I was surprised. Anyway, but what I noticed is that Bloomington has racism straight and also add adding to that there's also classism. So So it doesn't matter whether you you're you're white. Sometimes there is classism between the white people that you are a poor white person, therefore we won't treat you the same as we'll treat the other one. Like I saw it when I was bringing patients in in different hospitals. You'll experience it in a private hospital between the nurses as they are receiving the patients. You'll see that the treatment is just not the same. And it's like they don't care really. And that's just it. It's just
the culture there. I don't know what we can do for me really. Look, we can't change people. We can't try and force people to be what they're not. But don't take it to heart when it happens to you. Uh just just take it as it is. If that's what you want, do you want to be treated by darker skin?
Sorry. You mean you don't want the best that there is. I I I I I I I I I I think that although maybe we hope that there's no such committees that still exist but I think that ongoing education is important that ongoing awareness that needs still still needs to be there so that people can be aware that uh we are there to save them.
We're not going to be discriminating. I mean my research with what my studies that I'm trying to do is that when you see someone as a patient, you should treat them with respect irregardless of how they repres how how they present themselves or how they look, how they speak, whether they are poor, whether they rich. Um but also I never thought it from a um patient perspective on how they see a practitioner. But I think that awareness that education is important for us to have and this is one of the platforms that we aim to have to say we are not there to judge you. We are not there to
treat you unfairly but we are there to give you the best treatment that we can that you deserve. Anything else shouldn't matter. You know we abide by the ethical rules when we treat you. But yeah, um in in in any case, Charlotte, so you finished your you you left um Road Ops and uh I believe you went to um the emergency operations center. Is that is that correct? or there was something else that you did
that. Uh so I worked um so at Netare we have um specialized vehicles uh within the couching area which is called um critical care retrieval vehicles. So I worked critical care retrieval um for about a year before going on into the emergency operation center.
Okay. And look, if I had to choose Charlott, the EOC, I would definitely know. But for someone, many many of us picture paramedics on the road, but uh the people that are working in the emergency operation center, which is the nerve of uh every emergency services. For someone who hasn't been inside any operation center, can you please maybe paint a picture on what it's like on a busy day in the EOC?
Um, a busy day in the EOC has more than 1,600 calls that come in uh in a 6 to6 window period. So in a 12-h hour window period on you have just over 1,600 calls that come in nationally into a national call center. There's insured and uninsured patients and each one of these,600 calls are people's emergencies, their life events. So every call that you take is someone could be having the worst day of your li their lives and you could be taking that call.
And it's one of the reasons why I moved into the operation center. It's because um I wanted to help people on a larger scale. So when I worked as an operational paramedic and um you guys will agree with me that at most you probably treat five patients in a 12-hour shift at most. Well, you might get called to about 10 cases, but the patients that you do transport and treat could be between 3 to five. But here in the operation center, I got to impact more than 1,600 emergencies and lives. I got to have a hand in those emergencies and uh it's one of the reasons that I
moved into the emergency center and um every day in there is a high impact environment. Um it's a lot of critical cases that come through. Um, you could have anything from a lady who could be having a baby on the sidewalk that you would be have to giving pre-arrival information to and coaching her through the process to someone who could be calling you for abdominal pain and a stub toe. Each of these emergencies are life events and they need to be treated with care. So, um, it's a very diverse environment. It's a very dynamic environment. Um I don't think it's for everyone like you said you you don't
think that you would you would be cut out for the emergency center. No, I I look it's it's a nice environment because of as you said that it exposes you to the broader aspect nationally. You get to understand what happens uh in terms of um the dispatch system. Why do they send als what resources are needed at that stage?
And it's all guided by the information that the call taker takes the type of emergency. And these are the things that people don't know is that when a call comes through goes to the call taker and then from there it goes to various places where it gets dispatched and um Charlotte when you work in the EOC and this is something that is not spoken about is there any in-house training or people that work in the control centers do they have their own training that they get out outside and then they come and get work in the EOC or they get an inbound training.
that equips them to function in that environment. So, um just before I left Ned Care, that was one of the last uh positions that I held was education and training at the emergency operations center. So, um I was responsible for training of all of the call takers that came into the operation center. I also cured and I led an internship program. So, um there were a lot of unemployed um BLS paramedics um that are registered with the HPCSA, but they're not working and they're not doing anything medical. Some of them are cleaners, some of them are working in retail. So um I led an internship
program where I gave them the skills and I taught them how to take calls, how to give pre-arrival information, how to do telephonic CPR, how to speak on the phone and deal with angry customers and I rate patients and people were going to scream at you. So um that was one of the things that I led and I also led a lot of um education and training. So upscaling them on all of the currency bins um from anything from clinical um to customer services. Um so that was my last uh position that I led in the ESC.
There's a lot of training that goes into um call takers. They're not just uh people just talk on the phone and um like your usual telemarketers. Um it involves a lot of skill
and and and just to throw a spanner there is that um obviously having worked for the private engine services people used to say to us before someone can work at the ELC they must have that road ops experience. What are your opinion on that? I I think that it's very important to have a operational experience before um you come to work in the EOSC. Um it's what it's the thing that differentiates you from a telemarketer or calling someone or speaking on the phone in unusual call center. There are many call centers across South Africa. um you get um your GPG um call center, the fire
department call center, SAPS has a call center, but I don't think anyone is cut out for being in a medical call center where you have someone who calls you frantic. Um their husband or wife is laying on the floor unconscious, no breathing, no pulse, and you would have to guide them through that emergency. Um that that takes a lot of grit
and that takes a lot of skill. Look um and there was one incident I don't remember whether it was at ER24 or at Net Care but there was one um flight not the flight coordinator but it was a dispatcher. They actually had a a a case whereby someone had went into cardiac arrest and during that time that person was trained to handle that patient to guide those family members okay if he's not breeding put him on the on the floor that whole process start CPR and by the time when we got there the patient was um we continued resuscitation I think that tell that that's that's where you know
uh what's this technology plays a role in terms of having such advances in emergency medical care and that road extra experience is actually important for us to have that and for someone who's been in that in those cases where they have to give advice on the phone is there any counseling that you guys provided cuz I can imagine for us we go to those cases but for someone who's sitting their imagination is going wild some card what we do in this instance
um it's such a good point that you raised uh counseling for people um who talk on the phone to those who have gone through emergencies. Um I do know at the NIK 911 call center they have um um a Monday to Friday counselor that's there in house um at the head office that's able to take appointments um to counsel people. Also, a lot of the staff are trained to be care ambassadors to compassionately deal with some of the call takers when they've had a bad day or they have a difficult call just to talk them down through it. Um, they also have a bit of a pause and a breather
room that they can go in and take a deep breath. They could have had a pediatric CPR call that they could have uh attended to. Um, so there's a lot of facilities for call takers today. And to be honest, just before you proceed, I was just going to ask so what is the reception from the rest of the staff? I mean during your time there of course did they do they actually seek for this assistance or like for instance I remember like um some you know at times when when someone sends like a like I don't know like a counselor or anyone to speak to you and just say hey
they're available sometimes you you you know people look at you like oh what you know you going there or okay you cannot handle the job or you get so I'm just wondering is it have you seen something like that do you feel people are sort of like keen to to seek for this for the assistance that is provided or do you think they they are considered to be weak if they are going there and people might look at them funny?
I think um no one in the EMS um sees themsself as weak if they reach out for assistance. um being um being someone that deals with the nature of these cases is um is a special you have to have a specialized skill to deal with it. And with that specialized skill comes a lot of um stress associated with that. You also absorb a lot of um other people's emotions talking to them. You know, they're frantic, they're crying, they're irate. Um it's a lot to deal with mentally. It's um it's heavy. Um so I don't think now many call takers are reluctant to uh reach out. I think
they're more willing now than ever to reach out especially after the pandemic as well. Um it was very difficult for a lot of emergency call centers and a lot of us in the EMS uh during CO and postco as well. Look, um I think we need to appreciate uh the people that work in the call centers everywhere worldwide because um we just go to those cases although we also have our own stresses but they also have different stresses that they are subjected to
and uh the work that they put in um might seem like it's easy but in actual fact it is a demanding environment. I know in some call centers when a call comes through you have a specific timeline that it has to be answered and then it has to be shifted. So all of that it's it's a high impact stress uh that people need to function. Um and I'm glad that there's those um facilities whereby people can go and confide or talk to someone if they're not okay. And now being in a leadership position in the EOC having to run and also implement certain trainings which were impactful for the
organization. How did you balance your clinical decision making with operational oversight in a large complex EMS system? I think for me it was a delicate matter uh balancing clinical decision making and balancing operational um decisions. I think for me um I leaned a lot of a lot a lot on my staff at the time uh when I was in the emergency uh operation center. Um they've been working there for many years. A lot of the call takers, a lot of the dispatchers have been there for 10 to 15 years. A lot of them came with um a lot of knowledge that I didn't have. And I think um it's
one of the distinguishing things as a leader to be the kind of leader that you allow your staff to um speak out to you and um you allow them to feel empowered so they are able to raise concerns. So if you are making a decision um they are able to give you advice. I think that was one of the points for me um balancing clinical decision making and ops and I think at most I always had the patient at heart. I think that was for me the most important thing when making a decision. I always have the patient in mind and I think that when you that
leads your decisions, you will always make the correct decision and it's very easy to have that translate into strategy and your operational decisions.
Sorry, can I add something? It's a bit irrelevant. I I can hear I I can remember voices when I used to work for Net Care. People that I used to talk with on the on on the radio. I can clearly remember. I think there was a guy called Andrew. Never met him.
Andrews. Not Andrew Msan. Yeah, I know him. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know his last name, but I remember him. And there's another one, but I can't remember him. They used to work together in the same shift. But it also talks to um you you put a person you put a face to the person's name. You can think of them, can picture them and who they are.
And you sort of build a relationship with a person that you've never seen. You know you're going to work. You're going to talk to them. And if you have a fight with them, you know that your day is going to be nice.
But it was fun. It was fun. You're going to get dispatched to 10 Abdo Pain that day. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
You'll be driving from from Aman to to Pine Town, guys. You know, you you've brought something. Can I share my story? Is that with Andrew?
No. No. He's triggered. He's triggered. Andrew Andrew Andrew was my friend. I hope he doesn't kill me for forgetting his surname. But any we good we're good. I'll meet him. Tell him.
I'll text him. So look, I was young at Netare. I'm not going to lie. I was young. I declared that I was young. That was 20 between 2014 and 2016. Those years. Okay. So we had a friend, I can't mention names now. We had a friend that worked in the EOC. And then one of my friend was working in road ops. Right. So me and my other friend who was working road ops went partying.
Look, I admit it's irresponsible behavior. I've never done it. Went partying. We left the one that was working in the EOC. We came back I think about 3:00 in the morning
and I went to bed. So my friend worked closer to the base. people would know him. He was staying closer to the base. I had to drive from I think 25 kilometers to to where I worked. So the other friend, not mentioning names, heard that we went partying. She kept us busy that night. It was the worst game.
Is it because she didn't invite her or is just because look some things are you know when they say that there are signs there were signs that she was not happy
I was jealous I learned I learned that I'll never do it again ever again but um it was it was it was good experience it was but I I don't condone it to anyone that uh you go partying and then go to work again but lucky year I was not drinking um but yes I was young and I was out of attitude those things. Unbelievable. And um
but I think that's also another thing that highlights the relationship between um paramedics and their dispatchers and stuff. And you know, if you're rude to them, you're going to dis get dispatched to crappy cases then.
But that's not fair. That's that's too much power for people that sit in the office. I don't like that. Well, better behave.
No, you can't do anything. You have to go out to the job, you know. That's it. Um, Charlotte, so you finished at the EOCC and um you moved to where are you now and what are you currently doing? So when I um left the EOC and Netare 911, I moved to Cape Town. Um at that time um I just completed my MBA and I moved to Cape Town.
Congrats. Congrats. Yeah, thank you. Um, I moved to Cape Town into an executive role at a organization that did work for the World Food Program, the United Nations and UNICEF. Um, I worked there for about a year and I sort of didn't like the environment that I was in at the time. Um and then from there I moved into the current role that I'm in uh which is I manage a division of a medical aid scheme that deals with female healthcare and toddler care.
H that's very different fascinating. Yeah. Look you've you've you've done emergency medical care and your trajectory you've worked on helicopters. Um why move in the direction of MDA?
Um so when I was working operationally I wanted to make a huge difference in the EMS and I knew that I couldn't do it being an operational paramedic. I knew that I for people to listen to me I had to sit in tables and at boardrooms where strategy was being discussed policy was being discussed uh where decision making was happening and I couldn't just enter those rooms just like that being an operational paramedic I did my MBA and I did a postgrad in business management as well um just to get me through the door just so I could um be better at writing policies, making decisions as well in
the EMS and influencing a lot of the things that I want to wanted to influence at that time. And if you had to go back to maybe where you worked, do you think that educational experience now will better equip you to function in those roles uh since you've done your postgraduate and studies and um your MBA? Um yes um definitely I think the MBA um assisted me a lot with my decision making and the way I handle things. Um the way I do things is more methodical.
Um it's more streamlined. Um I'm able to innovate more. I have more of an innovative mind when I look at things. So the MBA has impacted my career. um in a lot of ways.
Um Charlotte, you know, you spoke about being in leadership in management and uh you doing your m your MBA. What I do want to ask you though is that when you were in those key positions that you were in, were you being mentored to be in those position? Did somebody train you to function in those spaces or you had to learn on the job?
Um I received a lot of mentorship and for that I'm very grateful um for Nedare for giving me um a head start in my career with a lot of mentorship. I don't think um anyone ever gets to where they are in their career or without a mentor. Mentors play such an important role in in your career and um that I was very grateful for. I received a lot of coaching. Um, a lot of my directors coached me on to how to write policy.
Um, coached me through a lot of my decisions when it came to um, the operation center. When it came to him, when it came to difficult um, critical patients, I received a lot of mentorship.
All right. And just to move more into your education and academic role is that you spoke uh you are an adjunct facilitator at um regent business school. Have you always seen yourself as a as a lecturer or as a teacher?
Um I always gravitated towards teaching because um I really liked teaching. um I felt like I was someone that um I can really simplify things and make you understand it. So I gravitated a lot towards teaching um in the operation center. Um but um I didn't see myself taking on this role um at Regent, but um I really enjoy it because um when I was approached by Regent, they looked for lecturers and facilitators that had um real world clinical knowledge when it came to decisions and being exposed to a lot of different health care systems in private healthcare and in public healthare.
Okay. Um, so those are the things that I bring to the to my current classroom environment. I lecture human resource management and organizational behavior um on the masters in business administration for healthcare providers. So um my main students are health care professionals who are doing an MBA
and and and how cuz it sounds like your life is busy. Don't ask us how we find time but how do you balance bringing academic work your normal life and as well as working your normal job? How do you balance all of that in a real world? How do I balance all of it? I think um I live by a calendar. They say, you know, that you're getting old when you live your life by your calendar. So um I map out my time and I spend my time really wisely. Um I'm able to give the best at my job as give the best to my students
with mapping out my time. So and um I think that's we know where you are. Guys behind me just holding his calendar behind him behind.
No, we we always laugh at Malusi and his big calendar, but I I think it speaks a lot about the type of person that you are. Um you might correct me if I'm wrong, but it says that you're organized, you're professional, and uh you know what you want to do, and as a result, you're able to function the way you're functioning. um even have time for pilates and hopefully you can convince Malusi to do this
also. So teaching doesn't feel like a lot of work for me. Yeah, that's very good. That's that is good. And uh in your experience um what are the key leadership skills today health care professionals need to thrive?
Um the key leadership um skills uh skills. Yes. Cuz you said you're teaching health care professionals in that MBA. Uh one of the subjects that you're teaching is M is um human resource. And what I want to ask is that if somebody wants to be a leader, I mean obviously they can ask you from your experience, but what are those leadership skills that you think they need for them to to be successful in leadership in key leadership positions?
I think for me some of the things that stand out for a leader especially um a healthcare leader is number one empathy will always be at the core of it. Um as a healthcare leader being empathetic um being an empathetic and compassionate leader um you will always see that um in your decisions and it comes through um in your decision- making. A lot of the times um when you lead people, people will always remember how you made them feel and when you when it comes to being a leader and I think um being a leader in the healthcare industry is um really important for you to be adaptable. I
think that's one of the second things I would say that's most important being an adaptable person. That's an important skill. Um we've seen through different p uh pandemics and different things that change in the health care system. Um the things that have been rolled out now with NHR, you need to be adaptable. Um you need to have the skill of leading people through uncertain times. Um CO was a difficult period for healthcare leaders um as well. We were leading people in very uncertain times. I would think adaptability would be um second to empathy and um for me um I always preach this being authentic as a leader. Um
that's an important leadership skill to have being authentic. Um don't try to mimic someone else. Um be authentic in the skills that you have. Develop your own skills. Um you know I mentioned that I'm very much an introvert. I'm not a loud person, but I connect very well with people and um I'm able to build very deep connections with people. So, um be your authentic self. So, empathy, adaptability, and be your authentic self.
I can imagine being called by you, Charlotte, and say, "Now listen, Madi might have to let you go like the way that it come." Yeah, you probably think you say, "Yeah, I think so too."
Yeah, I think so too. Then you think, "Oh my god, you might even thank me for like speaking to you."
Ask I think I had a question. Do you miss the road by any chance or do you sometimes wish you were doing one or two shifts at least?
Um, I I do miss the road. I do miss treating patients. I think um everyone that's in corporate healthcare still misses treating patients. Um um being in the corporate world is very different from just treating patients. Um I I love treating patients. I love people. So I do miss it a lot.
Even the night as well. I do not miss nights. you know, um, when I first got to the EU, I had to work night shifts in there. Oh, it was such a dumpster fire for me. I hated working night shifts.
He's not working night shift. That's why he's making fun of us. Normal people, normal paramedics and Charlotte. Um so look for a female uh regardless of their race um young aspiring or people that are already in the EMS profession. What advice would you give to paramedics or health care professionals who want to move beyond operational role into leadership management or academia?
Um, we just spoke about being authentic. Um, I would say if you want to get into academia or in management and leadership, um, don't go into it because you think management is easier or you're burning out from your current operational job and you want to move into academia because uh, you think it's easier or it's a much lighter workload.
It's not. So I would say um go with what you're passionate about and what aligns itself to what you're passionate about. I think that would be one of the things that I advise people to do. And um secondly, I would say find your mentors. Find people who are there and around you to encourage you um to help you walk this road with you. um people who would give you honest advice, not just flat to you and tell you, "Oh, you're the greatest person ever. Um you're going to be the best manager."
No, people who would be um who would be able to call you out, to be able to develop the skills inside of you, able to uh mentor you and give you the right advice. Um also try to gravitate to people that um you want as mentors whose career that you are inspired by. So I think that was one of the things that stood out to me when I looked for mentors. I looked for people who um I was inspired by what they did in the EMS or what they did in healthcare and I was inspired by their careers um or the positions that they held and um I
reached out to them as mentors. And then um lastly I would say um know your why. I had an overarching why from the time that I was 17 years old that I wanted to make a difference in healthcare and that why has never left me. Um it's the thing that got me through an MBA. It's the thing that got me through racism, through difficult days to days that made me question why I'm even in the EMS. Um that was my why that I wanted to make a difference that there weren't many females in this industry. there weren't many females um who were persons of color in the industry. Um the the time
that I flew on HIMS, I never saw um a person of color flying on HIMS uh who was a female. So I knew that I wanted to be uh someone that people will be able to reach out to me. Yeah, I was I was going to say that. Um I I think I think it's good and and and and as I said before, I think representation is a very important thing and I I can't stress that enough. If people can't see people that look like them, they will never feel like they belong. And and I think the other thing that I also find very important is
mentorship. And uh I think even though and for people that are out there that are mentors, I think you have to really really be considerate when you are mentoring these people to make sure that you do not break them down and that you actually guide them and and and that you're honest with them but also at the same time that you also think of them as human beings. Um the other thing that I was also going to say is that when we started this podcast it's it's sort of just like a conversation but now I'm finding that they it's becoming a place where people can reach out to for
advice. um few days ago someone reached out because they had an interview and it was they were going to work on a cruise ship and you know they just reached out to say hey listen I'm having this interview how can I best prepare myself um and then we gave them tips and you know they were successful at it which which I think is you know creating that community I know we are a very small community but it being small I think we should connect and now having you that is in a different space absolutely different I've not met anyone that is that has taken that route before I hope
you can sort of like come into that community and really assist those people that are moving in that direction cuz there's quite a few people that don't want to work the road and they want to do something absolutely different and I think you being on the podcast is is is really great and I think it's an opportunity for them to learn that there are different paths and different branches that you can climb. So thank you Charlotte.
Yeah, thank you. Yes. Um so I think Charlotte um thank you for coming to this podcast and um one of the few episodes that we've done was on um career progression where we spoke about um different ways different places where paramedics can progress their careers but we never I I never thought about that we'll have someone who's done an MBA who's done something completely different uh that is outside EMS But when we had a conversation with you today, we also got to realize that there is some element of incorporating health care into MBA, you're still going to have an impact within the healthcare sector, but where in an in a more office
environment where you play a role in decision making in making sure policies are written, policies that will for will be there for advancement of um the EMS service. and I hope wherever you go you keep shining and um thank you for gracing us with your present. Um any last words from Maluci before we give to Charlott?
Yeah uh I think it will be to highlight exactly what the career that you've taken. It's very different it's very unique and also looks like a big leaps of faith if you think about it. You moved from operations and then you went to uh to the control center and then after that you moved completely out of what you were trained as your primary skill
and executive role and now you're doing something that is completely out but is still in healthcare healthcare management. So you've progressed very very well in a different way and you and it it's not going flat. It's just going straight up.
Yeah. And and and it's like you know exactly what what you're doing and where you're going. So we say keep shining and uh all the best. Um should I want to do an MBA in which I doubt I'll come to you.
We can't take mala anyway. Everybody likes to do it these days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but thanks thanks for coming. We really appreciate your time. Thank you. Um
um thank you guys for having me. Um I was very privileged um when you reached out to me um to be on the podcast today. Thank you. And thank you all for creating a platform um for paramedics uh for women for um women of color as well.
Thank you and everyone. Tense chairs,